Bonus EP | The mindset of mentorship with Rafi Katanasho

That’s our second conversation with Rafi, VP of Solution Engineering at Dynatrace. In the previous one, we explored the essentials of leadership. However, during the recording of that episode, our talk gravitated toward our second shared passion for mentorship. 

This bonus episode captures the part of our conversation where we dive into mentorship and its transformative impact on both mentee and mentor. We discuss the qualities defining a good mentor and share personal experiences initiating mentorship relationships. 

Where to find us:  

• Connect with Rafi Katanasho on Linkedin  
• Connect with Sue Quackenbush on LinkedIn  

Discover the opportunities at Dynatrace and take your career to the next level: careers.dynatrace.com 

Transcript

Sue

Hi, and welcome to Real Talks. I'm Sue Quackenbush, chief people officer at Dynatrace and your podcast host. I'm inviting Dynatrace from around the globe to have real conversations about their experiences shaping our vibrant global culture. 

After having a fantastic conversation with Rafi Katasho, VP of Solution Engineering at Dynatrace, we released an episode focused on leadership. However, Rafi and I also share a deep interest and experience in mentorship, and a significant part of our discussion naturally leaned toward this topic, which inspired me to share this part of our conversation as a special bonus episode dedicated entirely to mentorship. Just listen to his passion.

Rafi

Yeah, look, I am a big, passionate advocate of mentorship and coaching. And I personally, myself have had the privilege of having had that experience with my career. And now that I'm reflecting back on these moments, it's like I realize how wise the advice that I was given, you know, when I was navigating difficult decisions and just the wisdom that, you know, saved me a lot of time and effort and helped accelerate the career path and help accelerate, obviously, the success of the business. Well, let me give you one example about the first time. Basically, I realized that I really had a mentor. It was a time when, uh, a startup company here in Australia was being acquired. And so I had a lot of question marks, should I stay or leave with our maximize my time and effort, you know, you know, and I needed real advice, right? Beyond that, you should stay because he was one of the company's co-founders, and I was one of the early people in that company. So, you know, that was when I felt he was really trying to give me real advice. This is my initial early mentor giving me advice that had me at the best interest rate rather than okay, what the strive to maximize the value from the acquisition or something along that nature. So I mean I felt he was listening to what I had to say, my real concerns. And I remember we were just having it over a beer, went to the pub, you know, close, you know, next door, which is what we usually do on a Friday evening. But that was after with a mass acquisition. Everybody was, you know, not sure about, you know, how should they take it? Is it good, or is it bad? And then we just had to read it, have a heart-to-heart conversation about this whole thing. And throughout the next maybe year to two years, he helped me really find myself in and navigate through a much bigger company and find the right role for me and coach me into sort of, you know, taking that that bigger role in inside the company. That was when I realized he was more concerned about me as a human. And then, you know, later on, obviously, he left, uh, from that company and as sort of a new leader came through. And that also, you know, relationship got built based on trust and based on me seeing a lot of wisdom in that person. And over, over a period of time, he saw, obviously, something in me. And so we built that relationship, and we had it going for about 14 years, where we both were extremely successful and hit nearly 15 years, 14 years out of the 15 years. We hit like record numbers in the region. So that's, uh, you know, how it developed.

Sue

You know, one thing that constantly runs through my mind is relationship and the ability to really connect with an individual in a coaching or mentoring scenario. But having that fundamental relationship built on trust and just that connection, how do you go about building that? Because I think that's so key to have good coaching and good mentoring sessions.

Rafi

Yeah, I think you've hit it on the nail on the head there it's about connecting with people. It's about listening to the teams, listening to their concerns, to their successes, to their challenges. And it's not always about, you know, giving them directions of what to do, but often it actually involves a lot more listening and obviously some, you know, wise advice in terms of, you know, the, the challenging that they're dealing. And I think that in dealing with that, you really need to connect humans to the human level. I mean, that is an essential thing. And they need to know that you've got their interests at heart. You want to maximize their potential as individuals. Um, I think to fulfill the vision of the company. You know, people always talk about customer experience and how important that is. But to me, that customer experience is a reflection of the employee experience. It's a reflection of how well we're treating our teams. And then they're obviously you're reflecting the experience that they're having. Would you back to their to their customers and to their partners. And so it is really critical to connect at a human level and to ensure that regardless of whether it's a like a formal mentorship kind of program or just the, you know, general day-to-day conversations that you're having with your team or adjacent teams, it's about making sure that we're connecting and listening as a human level.

Sue

You touch on listening. You know, I think sometimes leaders feel that they have to have all the answers, that they have to be the director in a way. And sometimes, it's just sitting back. And the hardest thing to do as a leader is to listen and to ask those questions, to seek to understand, because the answers are there. And you're right. We need to connect on a human level. And there's been recent articles about leadership and with kindness. Right. And just being able to say, hey, wait a minute, I understand we have all these pressures and deliverables, but let's connect at the level of, I know you go home at night, and you have a life outside of work. And so being able to really care and want to understand what's going on in an individual's life.

Rafi

Yeah. And I think, you know, you're right that, you know, there's a big blurring between work and the personal lives. And it's very blurred, specifically in the kind of field that we're dealing with. And I think it's everywhere. So and that blurring means that you need to have a holistic understanding of the human and their needs. Right. And to be able to sort of to connect with them. And back to your point about listening to and not always having the right answers, but it's not that bad, just the right answers. My experience, it's more about maybe helping, asking the right question of the team. And they often have the answers. So it's not about giving them the answer, but it's about helping them realize what that real answer is. And it's often through a question and not through. Giving them an actual answer.

Sue

Yep. So, you know, Ravi, one of the things we're talking about today is leadership and mentorship. And, you know, my philosophy is that anyone can be a mentor at any time because a lot of times it's about experience. And can you give someone an insight into your experience if they're seeking that information. And so, you know, can you speak to me about how someone who views mentorship as a mentor, you know, gets involved because everyone likes mentorship, but sometimes people are afraid or hesitant to become mentors? So what do you think about that?

Rafi

As somebody who raised three daughters, I remember the line that I used to tell them all the time, you know, growing up, I say sharing is caring. Sharing is caring. And how true is that sort of line? Sharing is caring. The people who are giving the mentorship get a lot of rewards from it. Most people think, oh, I'm going to dedicate my time. I'm not sure what am I to get in return for it, and I'm not sure if I'm actually ready for it. If you have experience and passion for people, and you would love to share your experiences and carry it on for the good of the individuals, the company and broader society, then I think it's wise for you to consider giving mentorship because you will get, uh, you get you'll get a lot from it yourself. And, and not just the actual people that you're actually mentoring.

Sue

Now. That's great. And mentors can come from all levels, areas of the organization. You don't have to be a leader to be a mentor. You you know, if someone is coming to you to ask for your experience, you are mentoring them.

Rafi

You’re very right, Sue. I mean, when I was being mentored, I don't remember it being called mentorship. And you never said like there was no a moment where you said, oh, no, now this is I'm I'm awesome to be my mentor. He was my mentor. It just happened. And then we built that trust. And over a period of time, I've gotten for questions, and over time, you'll observe me. And he had come to me for, you know, advice and things along that nature. And so you build that trust relationship basically between them. And, of course, that happens naturally. But if you're if you're wanting to get that closeness and you haven't had it, I would recommend that you seek it. You look around you and you would seek it from others because there's so much that you can benefit from and you can accelerate your, your, your career, uh, as from, from an employee perspective, but also from a mentor perspective, you can actually benefit a lot and share that wisdom beyond that just individual. And one other piece of advice that I think I personally, you know, benefited from, uh, a lot, is that this a lot of the individuals within within the company and a lot of them experience around you, regardless whether you're with Dynatrace or with other companies, there's a lot of experience around you. Do not be afraid or shy to ask and go look for these people that have you know that wisdom and ask them for mentorship and leadership. I mean, one thing I learned very early on, Sue, is that 90% of the things you don't ask or you don't get, right? So be brave and, you know, ask others. What’s the worst thing that can happen? I don't have time or whatever it is, but most likely, most often, you'll find that most people are more than happy to actually help you. 

Sue

I agree 100% and you know people, it's an honor to be asked to share your experience or your thoughts. So, I totally support your recommendation on that. Individuals should be bold, and they should ask. And the other thing that happens is A) it's an honor to the recipient, but B) it also starts the relationship. It starts a connection that wouldn't have existed. And so, you know, it's all these little steps of leaning in, asking the questions, being bold.

Again, asking the questions, being bold, you know that that builds those connections and sense of belonging within an organization, within a team, and you know, as a leader, encouraging that by that's the other thing I encourage that is so important and you know, one aspect of being a mentor, you also get to hear from that individual's lens on how they're perceiving what's going on in the organization or in the industry. And so as a mentor, you're, I agree, you're learning and you're just, I think it makes you a better leader because you have different. You're seeing different aspects and the different lenses of how people are reacting to a message or an action. Just to be able to gauge that better. 

Rafi

Yeah, you stay connected and you stay grounded, I think. And that's really important part of continuing to stay relevant and not to stay too distant from the front line, from the front teams who are dealing with the customers, with the partners, with the challenges. So I think it makes your overall a better leader, a bit more in-tune leader.

Sue

Yeah, I agree. And you know, we've talked a lot about, boy, leadership and mentorship and coaching, but the themes that I'm hearing are all about building a connection, building relationships, listening, seeking to understand, being bold in reaching out for nuggets of information and experience and learning. It sounds like everyone benefits from these types of connections, relationships, and conversations, and that's what leadership is about.

Rafi

Yeah, I think you summed it up really well, Sue. It's about leaning in. It's about connecting your passions, and we have a lot of passions as far as our work and I was just sharing a bit earlier so you know I'm passionate about philosophy and sport and technology and people, so and I find that. My best when I connect all of these things together towards driving the vision, mission, and purpose of the company helping the people come along, and also in part me,ntoring others. I want them to actually connect their passions because that reflects in front of customers when they're speaking from their passions other than just the work that they're actually doing, connecting them all and bringing them together. So you have to lean in and don't think that you have to restrict your professions to outside passions that you have. If you do it in the right way, obviously, you know you can bring the best of your passions and your business and the company's vision, mission, and purpose together. While growing the teams. 

Sue

What a conversation with Rafi. Thank you for joining me today. Be sure to check out episode #7 with Raffi on Leadership Essentials. And don't forget to follow the podcast on your favorite streaming platform so every new episode is delivered directly to your podcast feed.